Many of you know long-time sangha member Michael Dietzel, although he tends to stay out of the limelight.  Despite this, Michael has managed to do a tremendous amount of work on the new temple, working long hours in between work parties over the past many months, particularly in the Zendo.  Established folks may have also enjoyed working with Michael during his time as our tireless Program Administrator a couple of years ago.

Michael was a novice monk for a period, not quite 30 years ago, at Abhayagiri Buddhist Monastery in Redwood Valley, CA which, at that time, was a newly formed monastery in the Thai Forest tradition.  Around those years he also spent time at the San Francisco Zen Center, Green Gulch Farm and Tassajara.

Note: We wanted to feature Michael a few months ago, but at the time he was getting ready for an incredible pilgrimage to Thailand, India and Nepal; when we heard the news, we decided to wait until his return, so we could hear a bit of his amazing journey.…

And, while many of us were on retreat at Samish and Sansui-ji, chanting over and over the first four lines of our meal chant, visions of Michael kept coming to mind, realizing that as we were chanting, he was stepping onto that very ground:

Buddha was born in Kapilavastu
Enlightened in Magadha
Taught at VaranasEntered nirvana at Kushinagara

Kapilavastu… Magadha… Varanasi…Kushinagara—so, please join me for some snippets of his journey. 

Desiree:  Tell us a bit about how you came to be on this journey, about who organized and led this pilgrimage tour?

Michael:  I’ve had a desire to go to India for many years, and, in fact, last summer after finding out that I was really going, I too had a similar thought during the meal chant at Samish—I will actually be stepping foot in these places!  It raised the hair on the back of my neck.  Many years ago I was given a book, Meeting the Buddha – On Pilgrimage in Buddhist India, which was about different people’s experiences being on pilgrimage.  And then last October while visiting Abhayagiri I overheard the community’s abbot, Ajahn Nyaniko, talking about a pilgrimage he was leading in the fall of 2025 and, at the earliest opportunity, I asked him if it was possible to join.  Unfortunately, he informed me that it was already full but offered to put me on the waiting list.  Serendipitously, however, a space opened up!  And so, it was. It all came together and after all these years, it happened!

Desiree: How wonderful!  Ok, shall we use lines from our meal chant to touch on these major sites of the pilgrimage? I know they aren’t in the order that you traveled, but it will give us places to jump off from.

Michael: Of course!

Buddha was born in Kapilvastu…

Desiree: Kapilvastu was the place of the Buddha’s father’s kingdom—and where he grew up in palaces—and where he chose to leave home and family after encountering the truth of impermanence…Any thoughts about your experience there?

Michael: As it comes to us in the Buddhist scriptures, it was there that the Buddha left with his charioteer through the eastern gate, leaving behind his life in royalty, his family, his wife, his child, because of the strong calling of something he had not even determined yet—and we all felt the impact of that as we sat and chanted there.  On the grounds there is also an earth goddess temple, which pre-dated the Buddha’s birth and was apparently the place his father and mother went to pray for a son.  Even to this day, there is a temple priestess there and many still come to do the same; pray for a child, pray for an illness to be healed, etc.  Thinking about this and imagining these happenings, it was another place that felt very hair raising.

...Enlightened in Magadha…

Desiree: Bodh Gaya.  Must be an astonishing place—the place of the Buddha’s great enlightenment under the Bodhi tree. This must be a culminating point for the pilgrimages.

Michael: Yes, Bodh Gaya was in the state of Magadha, now Bihar, and is absolutely the “epicenter” of, I would say, the Buddhist world. It was incredibly inspiring to see represented there every Buddhist tradition, every country imaginable…thousands of people gathered all the way around the Mahabodhi stupa paying homage to the Buddha—and homage to the lineage of ancestors.  I wasn’t doing a lot of thinking—it was just a heartfelt experience of joy at seeing all these people together—thousands of years—hundreds of thousands or millions of pilgrims…I heard that somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 people are on-site each day, doing their services, practicing meditation, doing prostrations, etc.  People from all over the world chanting in their native languages. We noticed that we seemed to be the only group was doing some of our chants in English, and Ajahn Nyaniko felt that it was important to more-or-less represent us, in the West, by doing so.   

Desiree: You mentioned that you had an 8-day retreat here after the main pilgrimage was over—but it was not necessarily the quiet and deeply serene place that we might imagine…

Michael: Yes! Ajahn Nyaniko reflected on the retreat after returning, saying, “what was I thinking?” (Jokingly)… It was filled with the sounds of all traditions—with microphones and speakers and even soundboards, as well as horns, drums, cymbals, etc.  And yet!—maybe just because my mind couldn’t think with all the noise, my inner experience was settled and my mind quieted quickly, possibly because of all these expressions of faith. 

...Taught in Varanasi…

Desiree: Thank you!...Let’s move into places now where the Buddha taught… Varanasi, Sarnath, Shravasti/Jeta’s Grove…

Michael: Sarnath and Varanasi are very close to each other.  There is a large stupa there in Sarnath that is believed to be the place where the Buddha gave his first teaching—the first turning of the wheel. And nearby Varanasi is the ancient city famous, among other things, for the burning ghats—the religious cremations on the Ganges river; a very sacred spot for Hindus. Hundreds of people continue to be cremated there daily where this strong tradition continues.

Desiree: Please tell me more about Shravasti and Jeta’s Grove, the place where the Buddha spent so many rains retreats.  I saw photos where the monks and participants offered many beautiful flowers; could you talk about that a little?

Michael: Our tour organizer, Khun Lek, had arranged for thousands of flowers to be brought to the remains of the kuti, or hut, in Jeta’s Grove where the Buddha lived.  The group lined the wall of the structure with yellow and orange marigolds, as well as rose buds and rose petals, and everyone had an opportunity to make an individual offering within the part of the structure that is believed to have been the Buddha’s personal sitting space.  (Across the pilgrimage the places where the Buddha is said to have resided is where flowers would be offered.)  Our group was meditating as these offerings were swept up at the end of the day, and Ajahn Nyaniko noted that it was as if the merit of the offering, our offering, was being swept into eternity in real time, swept away for the benefit of others.  It was quite joyful to be able to be part of this.

In Shravasti, close to Jeta’s Grove, we also went to Anathapidika’s house and the Angulimala stupa.  Reflecting on Jeta’s Grove where we were earlier in the day, we were touched by the generosity of Anathapindika, the wealthy layman who was essentially bankrupted by buying Jeta’s Grove for the Buddha and the sangha and later using his riches to offer meals to the monastics.  Maybe a few hundred yards away was a stupa where the relics of Angulimala were buried; transformed from a brutal killer to an awakened practitioner after opening to the teachings of the Buddha—never to regress from the path of understanding and love.

...Entered Nirvana in Kushinagara

Desiree: We talked briefly, a few days ago, about this place, where the Buddha took his final breaths.  You said that, surprisingly, this place struck you instantly…

Michael: Yes, out of all the pilgrimage places, this was the place that I was almost immediately brought to tears. You asked me before, why now, why did I go on this journey now?  As I said, I had wanted to go to India for many years, but this whole trip felt moved by gratitude…for having encountered the Buddha’s teachings and for whatever reason, being there in Kushinagara, it felt so real, the thankfulness for everything, the gratitude for everything. It was deeply moving…the great fortune of being born in this life and finding this ancient path…it feels so remarkable...

Desiree: I know we touched on your extraordinary journey by focusing on these four main sites as a jumping off point--and I wish we could explore everything a bit more—but is there any other place that we’ve missed that affected you in a profound way?

Michael: The one other place I would like to mention specifically is Vulture’s Peak. It was here that the Buddha shared the Heart Sutra, here that he offered the Lotus Sutra…and here we were, at the Buddha’s hut.  The energy there was tangible!  Right there where the Buddha and his disciples lived —so incredible.  And, directly below the kuti remains are caves where the Buddha’s disciples stayed and practiced together—Shariputra, Mahakashyapa, Mahamaudgalyayana and others; sitting together and soaking in his teachings—I could almost sense their presence. Yes, it was such a special place.  Knowing those sutras, and chanting and studying them together in the present, I had this heartfelt wish that the sangha back in Bellingham could also experience this.  Our organizer, Khun Lek, has led over 100 Buddhist holy site pilgrimages and did such an unbelievable job shepherding our group along the pilgrimage.  If there is ever a possibility of doing it again with our Red Cedar Community I would certainly want to consider her as our organizer.  I really felt that every step of the journey was an offering of deep gratitude.

Deep bows for sharing with us, Michael.  I know we weren’t there physically with you, but somehow your energy and joy are palpable!  

Stop by and have a chat with Michael if you'd like to hear more about his experiences, and, if you have an interest in hearing about the pilgrimage from Ajahn Nyaniko, the tour leader and abbot of Abhayagiri, check it out here on YouTube: The Power of Pilgrimage|Ajahn Nyaniko

~Interview by Desiree Webster